What is the most interesting of John's visions (walking with his father, washing of the feet, etc.) on the threshing floor? What does the vision you choose mean?
Honestly his whole vision was hard to keep up with. The part of his vision I choose is, "And the voice, for the first time in all his terrible journey, spoke to John, through the rage and the weeping, and fire, and darkness, and flood: "Yes," said the voice,"go through. Go through."Lift me up," whispered John, "lift me up. I can't go through."" This is the exact moment I realized John will not give in to darkness, he won't live in sin, he wants to be saved. I thought John for sure wouldn't want to because he wouldn't want to be like his father. This quote showed me that regardless of the fact him and his father doesn't get in along he does love God. He wants to serve him, he wants to live by the word of God. He was asking God to show him the way out of darkness and into the light with him and God told him he could do it. This whole vision was his experience of getting saved.
I agree that John's vision(s) was quite lengthy and tough to follow, but I eventually chose the same vision and made it into a blog. I thought about choosing another vision but I chose one that I thought was easier to understand. The vision you chose is good because it demonstrates that John indeed wants to saved religiously, but he wants it on his own terms and not by the pressuring of his father, Gabriel. God did instruct him to follow the path to become saved because he knew that that was his calling. Overall you chose the same powerful vision that was difficult to me but I knew exactly how to find its true meaning.
I like that you used this as an example. John hears this voice of sin and in order to satisfy tries to get up. No matter how hard he tries he can not get off of the floor. The voice wants him to be disobedient but his body is refusing to. By experiencing this John realizes that he needs to get closer to God. He has designated John as one of his followers
I agree, at first John didn't want to be saved because he wanted to explore life and he didn't want to be like his father. Eventually John finally realized that he wants to choose salvation, but when he is ready. He doesn't want to be forced into anything.
I choose to use this part as well because mejust as you thought he would go agasint the grain and not be what everyone else wanted him to be and i thought he wouldnt end up as Gabriel did. It shows how he does ultimatley want to be saved and is afraid of this world and feels as though living in the light of god is the best thing for him. In conclusion i was shocked by his decision and thought he would do his own thing.
I also chose this vision mainly because of its simplicity when compared to the others. This vision manages to demonstrate a clear example that just because John and Gabriel don't get along doesn't mean that they can't have similarities. John manages to chose as Robert frost says, " The ones less traveled by," even though he wants to be free and take the sinful path he manages to take the road leading him to salvation.
I agree with this idea because we do see a deeper connection with John and religion. however I believe that John wants to be saved in the end because he decides to release his anger towards his father and do right by his mother.
I like the way you broke it down and the example you used, it pretty much is the way I feel about how John wants to get saved and him being the same as Gabriel or his opposite. I think that he wants to be saved but he doesn't want to become like Gabriel.
The most interesting part of The Threshing Floor the last part of the novel is when John is in the darkness weak, scared, tired, surrounded by demons with no way out and no light and how he finally calls on the Lord. We see this on page 202, "Oh Lord have mercy on me. Have mercy on me. and a voice for the first time in all his terrible journey spoke to John, through the rage and weeping and fire, and darkness and flood: Yes said the voice, go through. Go through". This part of the novel was interesting because since the start of the novel John has been against religion and against being anything like his father but that night in the church he called on God and God responded and aided him. Another reason why this is interesting is because it shows it is never too late for redemption or salvation. John was in hell and for a long time it looked like he was going to stay there, but he called God and was saved, just goes to show it is never too late.
Your blog is very deep and gives great details on John wanting to become saved. John is in darkness and calls upon God to help guide him in the right path. A voice that John hears gives him a feeling a lifts him up to find salvation and glory. I like how you incorporated the fact John was against religion but he then realized that he needed to become saved because God instructed him to. I totally agree that it is never too late for redemption or salvation. Overall this was a well detailed blog that give me an insight on how John fought to become saved.
I also agree with what you are saying because this part of the novel gives some type of closure for John. You see John throughout the story dealing with demons but in part 3 you see him being able to accept God to the point he is able to follow Gabriel's footsteps. I like how you included that fact that it is never to late to follow God because in the beginning of the book I believe was afraid it was going to be too late for him to follow God.
I agree with this idea because we do see a deeper connection with John and religion. I think that John had to have a personal experience to fully understand the mystery of God and religion, and I like your statement that it is never too late. For Gabriel, he was a sinner then became highly religious which is possible for anyone.
I love your blog because your blog speaks the truth it is never to late to give your life over to Christ because He is so forgiving we need more people to come to Christ the world will become a better place.
This shows the average life of any believer because they see that their problems get to big for them to handle and they can't really handle them and that's when they turn to the Lord; but they always see that it's never to late.
Part Three: The Threshing-Floor is mostly about John becoming of age with religion and becoming saved, and this was the most interesting part to me in this section. In this final part of the book John realizes his true calling in religion like his father intended for him to become. Brother Elisha demands that John gets saved and to accept God in the beginning of Baldwin's novel. John rejected religion in the beginning because his father, Gabriel tried to force it on him as well as Roy. John did not want to be saved early on, but a voice strikes him and changes him. As Part Three of The Threshing-Floor opens John has a new feeling and a voice inside him tells him to do the right thing. The voice kept telling John to "Go Through." "Ask Him to take you through." (Baldwin 205). This implies that John was instructed by a voice in his head to ask God to guide him out of the darkness that he has been stuck in for a long time. John is realizes and is begging for a chance to become saved like Elisha is and for his own benefit. John sees himself going through darkness surrounded fire and demons as he calls on God and trying to reach Him. As John tries to follow the path of becoming saved, Hell is constantly calling and trying to pull John back, but he continues to go to the light where God was. John finally escapes the darkness and is claims that he has been cleansed and saved. The vision that I chose demonstrated John's way of repenting to ask God to have mercy on him and save him. This vision was interesting to read because it gives me as the reader an insight on a vision that John had on his path to battle the darkness and reach the light where salvation is.
However, Gabriel did not want John to follow his footsteps because John was not his true son. In reality, Gabriel is stifling John's decision about becoming a pastor because John hates that Gabriel hates him. John becomes saved in the end because he decides to release his anger towards his father and do right by his mother. She wants him to disregard sin to better himself and the story implies John understands his mother's subliminal messages, which furthers the idea that John became saved for his mother.
I agree with Amber on the fact that Gabriel's actions toward John were "stifling" his decision at first and that his mother's impact on him played a major role in his choice to be saved. However I don't totally think John became saved for her I think he did it for himself which is something different for him because he spent so much of his life trying to please others that doing something to make him happy is so out of the ordinary.
I agree that the threshing floor would be the most interesting. However, I might not agree with you so much with the idea that John's true calling was him to become a preacher. I think that is what makes this vision very interesting, because we do not know in the end which path he would take. Ultimately, it is John's decision to decide whether he take on the "role" of being a preacher like his supposedly father or to be the treu person he wants to be like his biological father Richard.
The most interesting of John's visions was the melancholy and weeping sound intertwined with the body visions. The detailed description of the sound relates to his biological father's emotions before he died. These emotions led to his death and John not knowing his true father. The bodies detail the different scenarios of Gabriel's salvation, Richard's hidden anger and his damnation, and John's distraught between salvation and damnation. John's vision details his known burden from Gabriel and his unknown burden from his father, which is stifling his final decision about following in Gabriel's footsteps into the religious-order or being truthful to his sinful preferences.
This was a great analysis of John's vision. I'm glad you pointed out that John is having a struggle between following his bilogical father and his father's footsteps throughout majority of his vision. At the end of the novel, it is great to see how the clash of John's bilogical father and his father's struggles influence how John decides to live his life.
This was a very good way to put the vision. John was having internal struggles about whether or not he should let himself be saved and turn his life over to the Lord like Gabriel wanted or be forced to live in sin like his unnamed father did and caring on his life of sin unknowingly. Richard and John were similar in the regards of they both were torn between trying to life a good educated[Richard] or religious[John] life but were both met with obstacles presented by the environment.
I think this was a great analysis of the visions. I think the visions due sum up everything we know about the characters in the book and how they have effected John's life. I feel Joh felt more so forced into accepting salvation as opposed to a calling for accept it and I feel Gabriel's hypocritical ways contributed to this. I think Gabriel was so caught up in trying to hide his past that he made his children feel that no matter what they did, it was no good enough. John worded extremely hard to gain the acceptance of Gabriel, but as it turns out, John would have been closer to Richard if he would have lived. John had a natural gift of intelligence and a niche in education just as his birth father, Richard, had where as he had to work and force himself to be religious to try to gain the love of Gabriel.
I agree with you, Gabriel was too hard on himself and his children, he tried to make them feel bad for everything they did because,he felt abd about what he did in the past. Great way to explain the visions. John did yearn for the acceptance of Gabriel, i do feel that John was in a way "forced" into calling for the lord aswell.
The most interesting of John’s visions for me is the scene with the sinners, lame, weak and blind all trying to get to the river. It just shows how it is a constant battle to be holy and it’s a struggle to get to Christ and find salvation. It shows that every one of them is unholy and damaged in some way and instead of helping one another to Christ they walk by and do more damage to one another. They condemn each other instead of help. I believe this is symbolic of John’s dad Gabriel. Gabriel condemns Ester and Elizabeth as if his sins are not as bad as theirs. He also condemns John for things that are not in Johns control like his birth. He despises John and in some way is punishing him for the sins of his mother. And they all are struggling to be Christ like and live the “Godly Way” in the tainted world.
I agree with this as well. This section of the novel shows that nobody is perfect. They are all imperfect but yet trying to do more damage to the next person. They should be uplifting one another like "christians" are suppose to be doing but they aren't.
The threshing floor is the most interesting of John's visions in my opinion. This is the most interesting of his visions because he accepts the fact that he wants to be saved and wants to live the life Gabriel wanted for Roy his biological son. John realizes that this is life for him and that he was allowing Gabriel to make him not want to live this way. Gabriel wanted Roy to be like John so badly that he instead made John feel as if he wasn't good enough. In this vision I believe John actually hears the voice of the Lord and this is the reason he chooses to finally stop running from salvation.
Very good point! I feel in this vision John comes to reality about his father. That, likeyou said, live the life Gabriel wanted Roy to live. I believe that Gabriel acts like the way he does towards John is the fact that John isn't his biological son.
John has several visions as he goes through a spiritual experience on the threshing floor. The vision I found most interesting is the washing of the feet that John first described on page 51. In John’s vision, the communion service did not occur in the church but in a big, high room filled with sunlight and a multitude of people. The men and women sat at a long, bare, wooden table much like the table Jesus and his disciples sat at during the Feast of the Passover (The Last Supper). They also like Jesus and his disciples ate bread (the body of the Lord) and drank wine (the blood of the Lord) from a heavy silver cup like the silver chalice used by Jesus during his feast. Like the church communion service, the multitude divided into a group of men and a group of women. Also, like the church service the women washed the women’s feet and the men washed the men’s feet. In the church service, there was a basin for each group, but in John’s vision there was one great basin. And, in John’s vision, the feet were stained with blood that would not wash off. John describes the blood as “unholy blood” (206). The multitude goes to the river to wash away the blood. Their journey to the river is not done with charity towards each other. Instead, in John’s vision, “the strong struck down the weak, the ragged spat on the naked, the naked cursed the blind, and the blind crawled over the lame” (206). The blind, the lame, and those with leprosy are the ones Jesus healed during his ministry. But, the actions of this multitude revealed them to be hard of heart which may be why the blood would not wash off. John’s vision of the multitude washing each other’s feet is a reference to Jesus washing the feet of his disciples. Jesus also used one basin. The disciples did not have blood on their feet, but Judas was stained with the blood of Jesus by his betrayal. The taint of his betrayal also could not be washed away. John briefly sees the Lord at the end of this vision. This vision may be a reference to Jesus appearing to his disciples after his death. The Lord appeared to John who was now saved and born again. This vision is interesting because there was a recent article about Pope Francis washing and kissing the feet of a dozen inmates at a juvenile detention center in a Holy Thursday ritual that he had observed when he was an archbishop (The Times - Shreveport, Friday, March 29, 2013, Page 20A). I thought it was interesting that this ritual would be observed by the Pope and reported on as I was reading Go Tell It On the Mountain.
The vision I choose is the Threshing Floor because it has many meanings to it and it brings the story to a closer. In the part of the book John realizes he want to be saved and wants to become a preacher which everybody has been telling him all his life. He was going to follow the same footsteps his father choice but since Gabriel wasn’t his real father it made you question if John was going to go down that road. At the beginning of the novel you see Gabriel pushing for Roy to follow what he has started because he knew that John wasn’t his real son so he wanted this role to be passed down to the rightful son which is Roy. Also, John didn’t wanted to be saved so he was not accepting what other people was telling him he would turn out to be. Then, you see a shift in this part of the book because John hears a voice which instructs him to go through which means to just accept the fact he would be blessed with preaching ability. He was in a place where he was surrounded by darkness, demons and temptation so he calls on god to help him out of this place. Now that he tries to follow God it’s like the devil is constantly trying to pull him back but he is able to shake the devil off by staying prayed up.
The interpretation of this vision is nice and thorough. I agree that John is finally making a change in his life that God led him to and that the devil can no longer hold him back.
The most interesting part of John's visions is when he was walking and talking with his father. Usually John tries to please his father and listens to what his father says, but it was interesting to see John refusing his father's demands John had the nerve to call Gabriel out for his behavior and laughed when he slapped him (Baldwin 201). I feel that this dream or vision reflects all of John's mental struggles. John worries about his sinning behavior while looking at women which was referenced earlier in the novel, but his main concern was his father's harsh treatment. John was often too frightened to fight back, but unconsciously, John has found a way to take control and rise above his father's hatred. I think that John sees this as a message from the saints and God to disregard the ways of his father. Gabriel has sinned and therefore, is not an example of a the higher power. John gets to see Gabriel for who he really is.
I like what you had to say. It is really nice to see John stand up to Gabriel after all of this time. We have seen John be very submissive to everything that his father had to say throughout the whole novel. I was happy to see that growth in John at the end of the novel.
I totally agree with your statement because I also feel like this is the one time John expresses his hatred towards his father. Gabriel is no better than the people he calls " sinners" so John because able to laugh in his face was just like him saying "whatever". This was one of my favorite visions.
I would defiantly agree with what you said. For the most part I feel the exact same way you do. It was neat to finally see John stand up to Gabriel after being so submissive throughout almost the entire novel. Gabriel is no better than John and I think it was time he finally realized that for himself. John finally came to terms and figured out a way to overcome his fathers hatred and not let that spoil him and his heart or emotions.
The most interesting part of John's visions to me was when he was being asked to call on The Lord "Call on Him. Call on Him." (205) someone kept telling him to call on him. But John was too apprehensive. He wasn't quite to the point where he was ready to give himself to God. When someone cried "Have you been to the river?" (206) that's when he finally yelled "Oh, blessed Jesus! Oh, Lord Jesus! Take me through!" (207) right before he said that he caught a glimpse of The Lord. That was REALLY interesting to me. With him seeing the vision of the river it showed him what people went through to get to the river and just by seeing how distraught their robes were, he knew what they had been through. THAT vision was the vision that just gave him that little push he needed to give himself to God!
I like how you used the scene with John calling on God but you focused on the river and his vision of the Lord. This part of the novel was hard for me to comprehend and you just simply broke it down and I want to agree with you with the fact that John's vision of God most definitely helped him go through Hell.
This section of the book was hard to understand but I will write about as much as I did understand. The most interesting moment in Johm's vision is when his father and him are walking down the "straight, narrow way"(233). It is the fist time that John builds up the confidence to challenge Gabriel. The dialogue starts when the old, black woman is going down the same vacant and silent street as they are. This women in Gabriel's case is sin and mentions that the "Devil's son" goes after people like the woman. He boldly asks his father "Whose son are you?" (234). His response is a slap. John then tells Gabriel about his hate for him and that he "seen him under the robe". Once this is said Gabriel repeats "I am going to beat it out of you. I'm going to beat it out." Gabriel longs to beat the sin out of John for his many actions.
I immediately agreed with your post when you stated that this section of the novel was difficult to understand, because I too had a hard time. I find it interesting that you pointed out the vision you chose as marking the first time John develops the courage to challenge Gabriel. I would have to agree with that as well.
One interesting part of John's visions are when he is talking to his father. Thorughout the story John is walking a straight line, always trying to please Gabriel. He is always listening to what he says and for the first time John refuses his father's demands. John makes a mockery of him and laughs when he slaps him ( Baldwin 201). By calling Gabriel out for his actions, we see a side of John we probably never expected. This vision sheds light on all of his mental struggles, the things he worried about. He had always been obedient to his father but this shows him rising above his father. I think this was needed because John held in a lot of his hatred for him father and this allowed Gabriel to see how he really felt.
I agree. This was the first time he disobeyed his father. He needed this because in order for John to grow and be the man he needs to be he has to get from under his father who is oppressing him.
The most interesting vision of John's is when the book details on John going through the phase of becoming saved. Personally, I think that this scene in the book is considered the "turning point" in John's life. John finally gets the courage to stand up to his supposedly father. He does so by laughing when his father slaps him. At this point, John is no longer fearful of Gabriel. In fact, Gabriel has never seen John look at him the way he did (Baldwin 200-201) This scene of him at the altar becoming saved and "taking the role after his father" is what everyone was waiting for. Everyone surrounding him expected him to grow up and be a preacher one day. This scene determines the outcome of what John wants his life to be. He could either become what everyone else wants him to become or he could manifest into the person he genuinely wants to be. This scene unites the whole story together.
I agree with your definition of what you thought this vision meant. This vision is also the most interesting in my opinion. Even though it was in his vision, John's stand against his father is very symbolic of his life to come.
The most interesting part of John's visions is whenever he mentions the "darkness". While he is before the altar John has his moments when he is trying to escape from the darkness that represents sin and Hell. The darkness seems to engulf John and take him far away from God's light. John fears this darkeness but while in the darkness he starts to realize how much he hates Gabriel. When John comes out of the darkness he is considered saved but I think he comes out experience. John has now literally been through "Hell and back" and is ready to decide how he wants to live his life.
A vision of John's that stuck out to me is the segment where "his mouth was filled with salt, [and] his ears were filled with burning water" (Baldwin 198). This whole chapter of the novel is bizarre and hard to follow making my initial reflection to the meaning of this vision one of confusion. After reading the passage a few times, I developed my interpretation that the salt and water represented inner cleanliness for John. Being from New Orleans and having prepared many pounds of seafood, especially, I am familiar with salt being an aid to purge shrimp and crawfish in order to rid the shellfish of the grainy dirt particles. I also made the connection that boiling or hot water is used to disinfect everyday items, and even to cleanse bodies each day. With these connections in mind, I determined that this vision was John's way of cleansing his ears and mouth to prepare himself to hear and speak the word of God.
Your interpretation is great! I didn't think about the vision this way. John feels sinful and dirty. So that really explains the salt and the boiling water to cleanse him. He wishes to cleanse himself so that he can be accepted. I also like your connection to New Orleans and seafood; it's very relocatable and easy to grasp.
I believe your connection to New Orleans and the seafood was truly something different. I would have never been able to see it in that light. I agree that John is trying to cleanse himself as a whole to be saved by God.
This blog was very insightful and well thought out. John had always thought that he was unclean and not ready to be saved. He did not want to take on the role that everyone wanted to. After reading your blog, I do agree that this seems to be the most important. I think how you tied all this together is excellent and very creative.
John’s most interesting vision while on the threshing floor is the one when he is walking with his father. This vision is the perfect embodiment of his true emotions towards Gabriel. His thoughts throughout the novel have given readers insight on his feeling, while his vision is the perfect embodiment of those feelings. The conversation between the two as they walk characterizes John’s realization that Gabriel is a hypocrite. When John implies that Gabriel is a son of the Devil and very much a sinner himself shows that he is no longer afraid of what Gabriel might do to him (Baldwin 201). As he is able to brush off Gabriel’s threats and physical abuse, John shows the reader that his progression throughout the novel has come to an end and that he is ready to become a man. When John throws Gabriel’s own sin back at him, he lets Gabriel know that he has no right to scold everyone and label them as sinners while he is a sinner himself. This helps John come to terms with his spirituality despite the constant hypocrisy he has endured from his father.
The part i chose as most interesting was when John and Gabriel were walking down the straight narrow street and they see the lady. She was blacker than anyone John had every seen before, had a bigger mouth, and was drunk and dirty. What I found interesting about this part was the fact that John, during his hallucinations, was rolling the saying, "A servant of servants shall be unto his brethren" and wondered if this is why blacks were slaves. When he sees this woman in his vision, his father tells him that she is sin and she is what the devil's son runs after. John finds this funny as says in return to his father that " I ain't the Devil's son for nothing." Even though this section was quiet confusing I got out of this part of John's vision was the Lord revealing to John the truth about his father. His father is trying to make him pay for his sins. Gabriel doesn't want John to be saved he wants to let him fall into the pits of Hell. He wishes that his own son Roy would be the one. In a way he is trying to hinder John from being what he is destined to be. John tells his father that he hates him and that he has seen him without his crown and robe and he knows the truth. This is John's transformation into manhood. The battle between him and his father has not yet ending only progressed from man to boy to man to man.
I also chose this vision of their walk down the street, but I like your approach. I agree with the fact that in this vision God was trying to reveal the sins of Gabriel that he has been trying to hide for many years. Gabriel is attempting to have John pay for Gabriel’s sins. Like you said Gabriel wants John to sin and not become saved, so that he cannot follow in his footsteps. Gabriel wants his blood-son to be the one that succeed him. Also in this vision finally stands up and tells Gabriel how he feels.
The vision John had when Gabriel was calling him the devils son and saying that he was sinful to which John responds telling him how he hears Gabriel having sex with his mother at night basically blaming John for the same urges that Gabriel has and acts on. This vision like reinforced the theme of Gabriel s hippo criticism that keeps showing up like when He was a preacher but he cheated on his wife and had a kid with Esther. also Gabriel proclaiming to John that he is the devils son and John calling him out in his vision is like Johns growing up and him finally standing up to the man who was basically his tormenter.this goes along with the fact that all the visions are a part of a spiritual episode in which John get "saved" so its almost like him being saved is him facing in his own way all the problems that he was facing in the story up to that point.
The most interesting part of John's vision is when John goes walking with his father. I enjoyed this part the most because it explains the true thoughts of John. Gabriel treats John in the most harsh ways and doesn't see any good in him, but John tries to make him see differently. At this point John is fed up with Gabriel and he doesn't care what he thinks of him anymore. He sees Gabriel for who he truly is and he will be different.John realizes that it is time to dedicate his life to God and decides to stop fighting it.
The most interesting part to me in this section was part three: The Threshing-Floor is mostly about John becoming of age with religion and becoming saved. In this final part of the book John realizes his true calling in religion like his father intended for him to become in the first place. However Gabriel is caving into John's decision about becoming a pastor because John dislikes that Gabriel hates him. John becomes saved in the end because he decides to release his anger towards his father and do right by his mother. She was the main push that made John strive to be better. Another part that caught my attention is when John is in the darkness weak, scared, tired, surrounded by demons with no way out and no light and how he finally calls on the Lord. At this point, John feels helpless and relies on the Lord for help. I felt as if this was a realization and wake up call to John to solidify and show him just how much he actually needs the Lord despite what he might not want to believe it, it’s true.
During John's vision, he sees his parents, aunt, and Elisha watching him from above while he was suffering in a pit. They were singing and weeping for John. Apparently in this vision, John was "struck down." Perhaps John sees himself going to hell or purgatory for his sins, and his family and friends are praying for him. He also sees himself reaching and struggling towards them. But the more he struggles towards them, the more he falls into the pit. He says no matter how much he cried, no one heard him besides himself. This vision to me is interesting because it reflects John's feeling. This is how John feels. He belittles himself. He feels that he is sinful, that there is no way God can forgive him, and no room for repentance. He mentions how desperately he wishes to come to his family, but it seems like they did not want him to be with them. He even says perhaps they did not help him because they did not love him (198). I think this is just one of the saddest visions that John experienced. John feels left out and unloved. This is most likely due to society and his father. The society back then was very prejudice and racial. Also, John’s father shows him little to no love.
The most interesting part in this section, The Threshing Floor, was when John was surrounded by darkness and demons with no way out. He was very weak and could not move at all, he called with all his might "Oh Lord have mercy on me. Have mercy on me. and a voice for the first time in all his terrible journey spoke to John, through the rage and weeping and fire, and darkness and flood: Yes said the voice, go through. Go through". As we can see in the beginning of the novel, John wasn’t a very big fan of religion and he did not want to walk the path of religion as he was forced by his father Gabriel. But during this section of the book, he gets surrounded by the demons in a dark room and he tries to seek salvation and asks for the mercy of god in order to get him out of this bad situation. A voice responded to him and guided him through the hardship and John was saved. This proves that no matter how much if a sinner you are, there can always be a new start so salvation out of sin can be acquired through true devotion to god and religion in terms of the book. This whole experience was a story of how John was saved from sin and was guided into the light.
The most interesting part of the last section of Go Tell it on the Mountain was when we heard all of the noises and voices telling John to "Go Through” and to "Ask Him to take you through." (Baldwin 205). John had struggled throughout the novel in whether or not he wanted to following the steps of his father and whether or not he wanted to be saved or not. We see how Gabriel doesn’t want John to be like him but wants Roy too who we come to find out is the total opposite of what his father wants him to be. John struggles with sinful thoughts and be people pressuring him to follow in his father’s footsteps. John realizes that he doesn’t want to be living in sin and is scared to do anything other than what he knows and God and the church is all he knows. John is growing up and realizing that all the people he knows who is not saved is what he refuses to be like. After a long night of Hallucinating and dealing with both his good and bad demons he comes to the notion that he wants to be saved and then Gabriel tells him he need to live it and not just say it. I feel as though his visions is what ultimately forced him to decide in whether he was going to follow in the Lords path just his father did. John has the support from all the church and his family which encourages him and helps him reassure that his choice was a right one.
i agree with you that the scene where John is getting saved is a very interesting part. the entire movie Baldwin has shown how exactly John was handling his life while living the christian life that his farther thought he should. Even though the reader can tell that john is a God fearing young man he never really experienced the anointing for himself. this scene shows exactly how John is growing up.
The most interesting part of the last section as when John became saved and gave his life to the lord. This part is interesting because throughout the book John struggles with if he will be like Gabriel and choose the lords way or not. He wanted to be completely sure that that was the decision that he wanted to make. John called upon the lord to take him through and despite the fact that he disliked gabriel, he didn't let that get in the way of his salvation any longer. Also, i recall when John is in a place of darkness and he calls upon the lord to have mercy on his soul.
The very last page of the novel got to me the most; "And he felt his father behind him. And he felt the March wind rise, striking through his damp clothes, against his salty body. He turned to face his father- he found himself smiling, but his father did not smile" (Baldwin 226) This quote got to me the most because it shows that John got saved thinking it would please his father because he got saved on his own without his father telling him too. Its also very interesting because throughout the novel we have seen John struggle if he would be like his father or not and finally we see that he is and his not surprise he did not please his father. This also shows John as being grown and knowing what it takes to be a saved man in order for his mom and somewhat of his dad to be proud of him.
The entire vision was confusing and hard to understand but i did, however, feel as if this was John's coming of age moment. "Everyone had always said that John would be a preacher when he grew up, just like his father" (Baldwin 3). Through the vision, John makes this statement true! He hadn't had many examples of a straight and narrow path in his life. The streets represented sin and his Father never showed him love but lived a "righteous life." He could've went off and been like his brothers but he didn't. Despite the fact that Gabriel may have resented John, John didn't let that define who he would be. Because he didn't feel loved he could've gone done a very differnt path. But here we see that John didn't give into temptaion. "Go through. Go through.'Lift me up,' whispered John, 'lift me up. I can't go through.'" He is determined to do the right thing in life.
I completely agree with your post. John did not have to confine to what his father believes a good christian should be. He had to find his own way with the Lord which is every christian's coming of age moment.
The most eye opening part of The Threshing Floor was the vision where it says," Go through. Go through'Lift me up'' whispered John,' Left me up. I can't go through." I understood this vision as John choosing the holy path leading to salvation. Ever since the beginning of the novel John has been in between two conflicts choosing the holy path following the Lord's word, and the sinful one of going into the open world and experiencing it himself. I was shocked when I found this out because throughout the novel I assumed he was going to choose to go out into the world, and learn new things and experience others. This shows that regardless of the fact that John and Gabriel don't get along he still chooses to serve God, and wants to live by the word of God.
The most interesting vision i think was the glimpse of God Himself. I think that that was God giving John a vision of the power of God's hand. That profound vision makes John pick up the right choice which makes him know that he will face a lot of trials in his life and that he will have to keep the faith because his road will not be easy since he has become a new follower of Christ. God just wants him to choose the right path and follow him. That was God saying wake up and believe that I Am real and that I AM the truth the life and the way.
I agree 100%. That statement was very powerful. It's interesting how after all of his chaotic and random visions, this vision stuck out the most to John, especially since it was just a quick glimpse. That quick glimpse was the final touch to the series of visions. That vision in particular had changed John's life forever and many Christians nowadays can attest to that.
What is the most interesting of John's visions (walking with his father, washing of the feet, etc.) on the threshing floor? What does the vision you choose mean?
The most interesting of John's visions is the vision of him walking with his father and washing of the feet. As John and his father walked down the white narrow path it showed his fathered wanting to help him out of sin but it was John whom back away. He started to go backwards, and ran away from his father's hands instead of moving forward down this path with his father. The washing of the feet means the cleansing of sins. It also means that God has his path, wherever he goes, his feet is covered by the blood of Jesus.
I chose the vision when John was walking down the street with his father. This vision can be found as the author wrote, “And I hate you... waiting to worry him with their teeth again.” (Baldwin 234-235). I chose this vision because it is associated with paranoia. The vision relates to paranoia because it was taken place during night time. Also, bad things happen during the night such as robberies, murders, kidnaps and rapes. In addition to that, John felt as though demons were hiding in the shadows waiting for him to be their next victim. The reasoning behind this could be do to him having a troubled spirit and conscience. Also, this vision relates to a song called “The Freaks Come Out at Night” by Whodini. This song implies that people not of the norm come out at night and start a series of unfortunate events.
I had a little trouble keeping up with his whole vision. The part of the vision I choose was “And the voice, for the first time in all his terrible journey, spoke to John, through the rage and the weeping, and fire, and darkness, and flood: "Yes," said the voice, “go through. Go through."Lift me up," whispered John, "lift me up. I can't go through."(205). This is what made me see that John isn't giving up on himself, he will not live in his life in sin, and that he wants to be saved. I was pretty sure that he did not want to be saved because he did not want to turn out like his step-father. The quote showed me that John wants to server and live by the word of God. The vision demonstrates that John wants to be saved religiously, but he wants it on his own terms and not by the pressuring of his father, Gabriel. Gabriel did not want John to follow his footsteps because John was not his true son John becomes saved in the end because he decides to release his anger towards his father and do right by his mother. She wants him to disregard sin to better himself. John fights the darkness and reach the light where salvation is.
Trying to captivate John’s visions was very difficult, but the one that stood out the most was him walking with his father. John and his father’s relationship were not full of love and happiness. While John was on the floor he saw his father, and his father always said “I’m gonna beat the sin out of you.” Even when John is in a holy trance his father’s hatred follows him. John saw God and his family in the kingdom (heaven) but he had to get there himself. John even stepped up to his father by telling him” I seen you under the robe” (Baldwin 199). Baldwin was trying to convey that John has to walk through his new life as newly saved Christian. Now we know that John is trying to find his way in the Lord, and it is not going to be an easy journey. When John was said he “belonged to the darkness,” a voice told him “call on him” (Baldwin 202). We understand that John needed to walk with his father in able to get past him; we now know that he does not need his father to be a pious individual. I thought it was interesting because John finally gets a since of peace away from his father because he has a lot of support from the church and his family.
In the last part of the novel, The Threshing-Floor, John is finally realizing his fate and becoming saved. Although the novel all occurs in one day, Elisha can be seen heavily trying to help John become saved and realize his fate with God. It isn’t until the end of the novel when John is in the church that John realizes that it truly is his fate. John was truly against being saved originally due to his hatred for Gabriel and not to become like him. John truly didn’t believe he was meant to believe from the beginning because of the temptations around him, like the yellow stain on the ceiling for example. In the final chapter of the novel, however, John is told by a voice to “ask Him to take you through” (205) which truly changes John and helps him become saved. John envisions himself in Hell reaching for the light but forever being pulled back. John, however, fights for God and goes for the light. In my opinion, this was a truly invigorating moment of the novel because John finally realizes his fate and begins to fight for it.
When I look at this section I have no other choice but to compare John in the novel to John the divine. In Revelation John sees vision from the Lord regarding the preperations of heaven. Here John is shown the right and the wrong path, but what was intresting how he was shown the the vision of servanthood. Washing others feet was showing the same attitude Christ had when he washed the disciples feet. John was shown a life of service and gratitude.
I honestly think all of the visions were a little difficult to follow, but I think the most interesting was the "Threshing Floor" because I feel this concludes the story well. This vision demonstrates a turning point in John's conflict with himself and his religion. This is where John finally feels pulled to God even though he knows he may venture off again due to his sexuality. When John pleads for God to "have mercy on [him]" (pg.202) it shows that John is finally trying to give up control on his life. I believe this is John's final attempt to gain a true father relationship with Gabriel though accepting a relationship with God as a spiritual father. I feel that even though John felt in the moment it was what was necessary that he was not fully committed. He cared about what people thought of him and Elizabeth and Elisha's desire for him to be saved for he even states after to Elisha that he wants people to know he was saved no matter what he does with his life after. This shows me that John knew that his salvation with the lord was not something he planned on nurturing and I think when Gabriel still rejected him afterwards, it damaged the potential relationship John could have had with the Lord due to Gabriel's hurtful behavior.
In the final section of this book, The Threshing Floor, John is transitioning from a boy to a man. The vision I chose to write about shows John asking God for His help; he wants Him to save him from the darkness. He finally becomes saved although in the start of the book he did not want to be a truly religious man like Gabriel. “Everyone had always said that John would be a preacher when he grew up, just like his father.” (3) Gabriel pushed religion on his whole family, especially Roy and John. Although, Gabriel did not feel that John should be the one to follow in his footsteps and be a preacher because he was not his blood son. It took John a while to finally realize that his calling was to become a religious man. Elisha had been getting on John to truly accept God and be saved from the beginning. Gabriel put so much force on religion that John was not sure that he could whole-heartedly accept God and be saved like Elisha and Gabriel wanted him to be. A voice comes along and changes John completely. It tells him to do right and accept what was set in place for his future. He knows that he needs to stop pushing God away and accept his fate. John needed to ask God to pull him through the darkness so that he could get to the light. He was stuck for a while and needed this change. John now has a desire to be saved like Elisha. As John is trying to push through the darkness demons are trying to pull him back further but they fail because John is headed for the light and reaching for God. When John finally gets out of the darkness he is saved and cleansed from all of his sins. I found this vision to be remarkable because it shows step-by-step how John got out of the darkness and into the arms of God Himself. Olivia Sherman: Week 11
All of his visions were hard to follow, but i think that "The Threshing Floor" was the best because it ended the story well and was his coming of age story. The vision shows that he has ended his conflict with religion and he chose to give his life to Christ.
I found it quite difficult to discern John’s visions and what was taking place while on the floor. I found the vision of John walking down the narrow street with Gabriel the most interesting of the visions that I read. It is interesting that his father was taking him on a walk on the straight and narrow path but Gabriel had never really walked on the straight and narrow himself. I found it interesting that John was trying to determine if he was going to the streets or staying in the church, but yet in his vision he was frightened in streets with Gabriel. He realizes that the “buildings were not for him¬¬—not today¬¬— no, nor tomorrow, either” (Baldwin 200). How ironic is it that while on the path of the straight and narrow they encounter a drunken dark skinned woman. I think this is representative of the women Gabriel did wrong while on his path of holiness. Gabriel is upset to see her. When John makes fun of her, Gabriel says, “you mighty proud, ain’t you to be the Devil’s son” (201). He also says that the woman was sin and that is what the Devil’s son goes after. When John asks him who son he is, Gabriel gets mad because this is the kind of woman Gabriel goes for a woman who is needy. At the end of the vision John expresses that he has seen Gabriel naked, meaning that he has seen him without his holy robe that he wants everyone to think is his real self(201). John expresses how he doesn’t want to be like him.
The most interesting part of it had to be when he was in darkness and it was like he couldn't see and he needed direction, someone to help him through whatever he was going through. It was was like he was blind and at that moment despite of how he tried to avoid giving himself to God and not being saved, basically against religion in a sort of way, He called to GOD and asked him to lead him in the direction that he needed to be lead in, that touched me.
The most interesting part of John's vision was when he reaches the high room. He describes the men and women dressed in lonh white robes celebrating communion together. I like how these who come off as holy and clean ends up at the river. "And now they had undergone a change: their robes were ragged, and stained with the road which they had travled, and stained with unholy blood; the robes of some barely covered their nakedness; and some indeed were naked," (206). To me, this vision completes the theme of the book, bringing truth to the light. Throughout the book, we are introduced to unique characters and their darkest secrets. Like the people celebrating communion, they are not perfect. No one ispperfect. Everyone sins and falls short.
The Threshing floor scene was very hectic and confusing but the most interesting and clearest part of the section is when John finally decides to give his life over to God. John was in the fiery pits of Hell and he was afraid that he would have to stay there so he whispered “ Oh, Lord have mercy on me. Have mercy on me (205). This was the first step of John’s salvation. Then a voice spoke back to John saying “go through, go through”. John begins to develop faith when he says “lift me up. I can’t go through” (205). In this part of the threshing floor, John is stuck between darkness and light. I feel that this part of the threshing floor is the most important because it is when John realizes that God is the way and the truth and Jesus is his savior. I also like this scene because in the beginning of the novel John says that he will never bow to God because that means that he has to bow to his father first. But John has overcame his childishness and recognized that God is the only way.
I agree that this was a very confusing section of the book, but I also liked the vision you choose. It was very clear and easy to understand, but I'm not sure John necessarily went through his father. I think that John realized that his father is and will not be in his way when trying to get to God.
‘’The Threshing Floor” was a very confusing and for the most part chaotic. There was so much going on at the time that Id didn’t truly understand what was going on at some parts. However, the vision that John experienced that had captured my attention the most was when John saw his mother, father, Elisha, and his aunt above him watching him “burn” in the pits of hell. In this vision, he feels like his body is a heavy carcass that he is currently trying to raise with no help. It is mentioned that “He struggled, to rise up, and meet them- he wanted wings to fly upward and meet them in the morning, that morning where they were” (Baldwin 197). I believe that The “morning” that is mentioned represents salvation as he tries to mirror the people that he believes that have already reached this state: His mother, father, Elisha, and his Aunt. However, he feels that he is drowning in pit of his sins and that he probably will never reach that state of holiness. That is why he is struggling to rise and get up. I find this vision very interesting. It tells the reader that he is very hard upon himself and that he gives himself great expectations to fill.
For the last part of the book, "The Threshing Floor," it was very difficult to keep up with the many changing scenes in the visions. There were so many of them and the transitions were so sudden it was hard to keep up, but my favorite vision was when John was in the graveyard with his family members and even Deborah, whom he did not know. To me it seemed like the truth about everything involving his family was coming to him, although he did not recognize it. There in the graveyard "there was no speech or language, and there was no love" (Baldwin 202). The fact that his family was there and love was absent told me that there was more to this picture that meets the eye.
John's most important vision is when he sees the light on page 207. The whole time before this, he has been trapped in his own darkness, without Christ. He knew that this was the life for him, but it just took him awhile to figure it out on his own, and actually commit to it. Before, he felt too much pressure, being the step son as a father. However, in this scene, he no longer cares. He actually wants it for himself now, which is why it is the most important of his visions. He calls out for Jesus in this scene, and "his drifting soul was anchored in the love of God; in the rock that endured forever" (207). He now lives with the presence of the Lord within him. From this point on he won't have to deal with worrying so much about how he's going to come to Christ and please Gabriel. He has found joy within himself and Christ alone. He still has hopes of pleasing Gabriel, but now that he has a life with Christ, he does not have to carry the burden of not being saved.
I can see how this vision would be important. It shows how John has to come to the Lord for the right reasons. The reason shouldn't be to please Gabriel but for his own health. He also shouldn't turn away from the Lord to despite Gabriel but he should form his own personal reasons for building a relationship with the Lord. I don't think anything that John does will please Gabriel. John could foster his own ministry and that still wouldn't please Gabriel. But now I think John feels as though Christ will lead him through the situation and lighten his burden of not pleasing Gabriel.
The most interesting part of the novel was the threshing floor when John was surrounded by the demons and he was scared and he was basically trapped and he finally called on God! I thought it was so ironic, because since the beginning, John has been trying to steer away from God, and religion period. When he was in need he remembered that god would always aid him. i think that the message was that its never too late to call on God and allow him to enter your life for savor. It never to late for salvation and that is what John proved and he was then saved.
The most interesting of John's vision was walking with his father. He needed to do that so that he can move past it and let go of the relationship of the past. He didn't have the best relationship with his father, but in order for him to move on, he had to do this. He wanted to become a Christian and start anew. This can be related back to how and why he treats his boys the way he do
A very interesting vision is when he sees himself and his father walking down the long narrow road, his father dressed in a white robe. Tall buildings reaching from the sky. This vision is very interesting because it at first seems very clean cut and pure, like the embodiment of holiness. However, as the vision goes on this pure vision becomes stained when the black women appears. To me the vision shows how narrow the path is to walk with the Lord and how, like the woman, it is so easy to get off course. At the end of the vision John yells, "And I hate you. I hate you. I don't care about your golden crown. I don't care about your long white robe. I seen you under your robe, I seen you!" (201). John is now finally expressing all the feelings he deeply held for his father. The golden crown and white robe represents his father's holiness and preacher ways and John's stating I seen means that his father is covering something up and that his father doesn't even belong on the narrow path.
Honestly his whole vision was hard to keep up with. The part of his vision I choose is, "And the voice, for the first time in all his terrible journey, spoke to John, through the rage and the weeping, and fire, and darkness, and flood: "Yes," said the voice,"go through. Go through."Lift me up," whispered John, "lift me up. I can't go through."" This is the exact moment I realized John will not give in to darkness, he won't live in sin, he wants to be saved. I thought John for sure wouldn't want to because he wouldn't want to be like his father. This quote showed me that regardless of the fact him and his father doesn't get in along he does love God. He wants to serve him, he wants to live by the word of God. He was asking God to show him the way out of darkness and into the light with him and God told him he could do it. This whole vision was his experience of getting saved.
ReplyDeleteI agree that John's vision(s) was quite lengthy and tough to follow, but I eventually chose the same vision and made it into a blog. I thought about choosing another vision but I chose one that I thought was easier to understand. The vision you chose is good because it demonstrates that John indeed wants to saved religiously, but he wants it on his own terms and not by the pressuring of his father, Gabriel. God did instruct him to follow the path to become saved because he knew that that was his calling. Overall you chose the same powerful vision that was difficult to me but I knew exactly how to find its true meaning.
DeleteI like that you used this as an example. John hears this voice of sin and in order to satisfy tries to get up. No matter how hard he tries he can not get off of the floor. The voice wants him to be disobedient but his body is refusing to. By experiencing this John realizes that he needs to get closer to God. He has designated John as one of his followers
DeleteI agree, at first John didn't want to be saved because he wanted to explore life and he didn't want to be like his father. Eventually John finally realized that he wants to choose salvation, but when he is ready. He doesn't want to be forced into anything.
DeleteI choose to use this part as well because mejust as you thought he would go agasint the grain and not be what everyone else wanted him to be and i thought he wouldnt end up as Gabriel did. It shows how he does ultimatley want to be saved and is afraid of this world and feels as though living in the light of god is the best thing for him. In conclusion i was shocked by his decision and thought he would do his own thing.
DeleteI also chose this vision mainly because of its simplicity when compared to the others. This vision manages to demonstrate a clear example that just because John and Gabriel don't get along doesn't mean that they can't have similarities. John manages to chose as Robert frost says, " The ones less traveled by," even though he wants to be free and take the sinful path he manages to take the road leading him to salvation.
DeleteI agree with this idea because we do see a deeper connection with John and religion. however I believe that John wants to be saved in the end because he decides to release his anger towards his father and do right by his mother.
DeleteI like the way you broke it down and the example you used, it pretty much is the way I feel about how John wants to get saved and him being the same as Gabriel or his opposite. I think that he wants to be saved but he doesn't want to become like Gabriel.
Deletepage 205, paragraph 3-4.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe most interesting part of The Threshing Floor the last part of the novel is when John is in the darkness weak, scared, tired, surrounded by demons with no way out and no light and how he finally calls on the Lord. We see this on page 202, "Oh Lord have mercy on me. Have mercy on me. and a voice for the first time in all his terrible journey spoke to John, through the rage and weeping and fire, and darkness and flood: Yes said the voice, go through. Go through". This part of the novel was interesting because since the start of the novel John has been against religion and against being anything like his father but that night in the church he called on God and God responded and aided him. Another reason why this is interesting is because it shows it is never too late for redemption or salvation. John was in hell and for a long time it looked like he was going to stay there, but he called God and was saved, just goes to show it is never too late.
ReplyDeleteYour blog is very deep and gives great details on John wanting to become saved. John is in darkness and calls upon God to help guide him in the right path. A voice that John hears gives him a feeling a lifts him up to find salvation and glory. I like how you incorporated the fact John was against religion but he then realized that he needed to become saved because God instructed him to. I totally agree that it is never too late for redemption or salvation. Overall this was a well detailed blog that give me an insight on how John fought to become saved.
DeleteI also agree with what you are saying because this part of the novel gives some type of closure for John. You see John throughout the story dealing with demons but in part 3 you see him being able to accept God to the point he is able to follow Gabriel's footsteps. I like how you included that fact that it is never to late to follow God because in the beginning of the book I believe was afraid it was going to be too late for him to follow God.
DeleteI agree with this idea because we do see a deeper connection with John and religion. I think that John had to have a personal experience to fully understand the mystery of God and religion, and I like your statement that it is never too late. For Gabriel, he was a sinner then became highly religious which is possible for anyone.
DeleteI love your blog because your blog speaks the truth it is never to late to give your life over to Christ because He is so forgiving we need more people to come to Christ the world will become a better place.
DeleteThis shows the average life of any believer because they see that their problems get to big for them to handle and they can't really handle them and that's when they turn to the Lord; but they always see that it's never to late.
DeleteI completely agree with your blog. John had to have his own experience to follow God
DeletePart Three: The Threshing-Floor is mostly about John becoming of age with religion and becoming saved, and this was the most interesting part to me in this section. In this final part of the book John realizes his true calling in religion like his father intended for him to become. Brother Elisha demands that John gets saved and to accept God in the beginning of Baldwin's novel. John rejected religion in the beginning because his father, Gabriel tried to force it on him as well as Roy. John did not want to be saved early on, but a voice strikes him and changes him. As Part Three of The Threshing-Floor opens John has a new feeling and a voice inside him tells him to do the right thing. The voice kept telling John to "Go Through." "Ask Him to take you through." (Baldwin 205). This implies that John was instructed by a voice in his head to ask God to guide him out of the darkness that he has been stuck in for a long time. John is realizes and is begging for a chance to become saved like Elisha is and for his own benefit. John sees himself going through darkness surrounded fire and demons as he calls on God and trying to reach Him. As John tries to follow the path of becoming saved, Hell is constantly calling and trying to pull John back, but he continues to go to the light where God was. John finally escapes the darkness and is claims that he has been cleansed and saved. The vision that I chose demonstrated John's way of repenting to ask God to have mercy on him and save him. This vision was interesting to read because it gives me as the reader an insight on a vision that John had on his path to battle the darkness and reach the light where salvation is.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Gabriel did not want John to follow his footsteps because John was not his true son. In reality, Gabriel is stifling John's decision about becoming a pastor because John hates that Gabriel hates him. John becomes saved in the end because he decides to release his anger towards his father and do right by his mother. She wants him to disregard sin to better himself and the story implies John understands his mother's subliminal messages, which furthers the idea that John became saved for his mother.
DeleteI agree with Amber on the fact that Gabriel's actions toward John were "stifling" his decision at first and that his mother's impact on him played a major role in his choice to be saved. However I don't totally think John became saved for her I think he did it for himself which is something different for him because he spent so much of his life trying to please others that doing something to make him happy is so out of the ordinary.
DeleteI agree that the threshing floor would be the most interesting. However, I might not agree with you so much with the idea that John's true calling was him to become a preacher. I think that is what makes this vision very interesting, because we do not know in the end which path he would take. Ultimately, it is John's decision to decide whether he take on the "role" of being a preacher like his supposedly father or to be the treu person he wants to be like his biological father Richard.
DeleteThe most interesting of John's visions was the melancholy and weeping sound intertwined with the body visions. The detailed description of the sound relates to his biological father's emotions before he died. These emotions led to his death and John not knowing his true father. The bodies detail the different scenarios of Gabriel's salvation, Richard's hidden anger and his damnation, and John's distraught between salvation and damnation. John's vision details his known burden from Gabriel and his unknown burden from his father, which is stifling his final decision about following in Gabriel's footsteps into the religious-order or being truthful to his sinful preferences.
ReplyDeleteThis was a great analysis of John's vision. I'm glad you pointed out that John is having a struggle between following his bilogical father and his father's footsteps throughout majority of his vision. At the end of the novel, it is great to see how the clash of John's bilogical father and his father's struggles influence how John decides to live his life.
DeleteThis was a very good way to put the vision. John was having internal struggles about whether or not he should let himself be saved and turn his life over to the Lord like Gabriel wanted or be forced to live in sin like his unnamed father did and caring on his life of sin unknowingly. Richard and John were similar in the regards of they both were torn between trying to life a good educated[Richard] or religious[John] life but were both met with obstacles presented by the environment.
DeleteI think this was a great analysis of the visions. I think the visions due sum up everything we know about the characters in the book and how they have effected John's life. I feel Joh felt more so forced into accepting salvation as opposed to a calling for accept it and I feel Gabriel's hypocritical ways contributed to this. I think Gabriel was so caught up in trying to hide his past that he made his children feel that no matter what they did, it was no good enough. John worded extremely hard to gain the acceptance of Gabriel, but as it turns out, John would have been closer to Richard if he would have lived. John had a natural gift of intelligence and a niche in education just as his birth father, Richard, had where as he had to work and force himself to be religious to try to gain the love of Gabriel.
DeleteI agree with you, Gabriel was too hard on himself and his children, he tried to make them feel bad for everything they did because,he felt abd about what he did in the past. Great way to explain the visions. John did yearn for the acceptance of Gabriel, i do feel that John was in a way "forced" into calling for the lord aswell.
DeleteThe most interesting of John’s visions for me is the scene with the sinners, lame, weak and blind all trying to get to the river. It just shows how it is a constant battle to be holy and it’s a struggle to get to Christ and find salvation. It shows that every one of them is unholy and damaged in some way and instead of helping one another to Christ they walk by and do more damage to one another. They condemn each other instead of help. I believe this is symbolic of John’s dad Gabriel. Gabriel condemns Ester and Elizabeth as if his sins are not as bad as theirs. He also condemns John for things that are not in Johns control like his birth. He despises John and in some way is punishing him for the sins of his mother. And they all are struggling to be Christ like and live the “Godly Way” in the tainted world.
ReplyDeleteI agree with this as well. This section of the novel shows that nobody is perfect. They are all imperfect but yet trying to do more damage to the next person. They should be uplifting one another like "christians" are suppose to be doing but they aren't.
DeleteThe threshing floor is the most interesting of John's visions in my opinion. This is the most interesting of his visions because he accepts the fact that he wants to be saved and wants to live the life Gabriel wanted for Roy his biological son. John realizes that this is life for him and that he was allowing Gabriel to make him not want to live this way. Gabriel wanted Roy to be like John so badly that he instead made John feel as if he wasn't good enough. In this vision I believe John actually hears the voice of the Lord and this is the reason he chooses to finally stop running from salvation.
ReplyDeleteVery good point! I feel in this vision John comes to reality about his father. That, likeyou said, live the life Gabriel wanted Roy to live. I believe that Gabriel acts like the way he does towards John is the fact that John isn't his biological son.
DeleteJohn has several visions as he goes through a spiritual experience on the threshing floor. The vision I found most interesting is the washing of the feet that John first described on page 51. In John’s vision, the communion service did not occur in the church but in a big, high room filled with sunlight and a multitude of people. The men and women sat at a long, bare, wooden table much like the table Jesus and his disciples sat at during the Feast of the Passover (The Last Supper). They also like Jesus and his disciples ate bread (the body of the Lord) and drank wine (the blood of the Lord) from a heavy silver cup like the silver chalice used by Jesus during his feast. Like the church communion service, the multitude divided into a group of men and a group of women. Also, like the church service the women washed the women’s feet and the men washed the men’s feet. In the church service, there was a basin for each group, but in John’s vision there was one great basin. And, in John’s vision, the feet were stained with blood that would not wash off. John describes the blood as “unholy blood” (206). The multitude goes to the river to wash away the blood. Their journey to the river is not done with charity towards each other. Instead, in John’s vision, “the strong struck down the weak, the ragged spat on the naked, the naked cursed the blind, and the blind crawled over the lame” (206). The blind, the lame, and those with leprosy are the ones Jesus healed during his ministry. But, the actions of this multitude revealed them to be hard of heart which may be why the blood would not wash off. John’s vision of the multitude washing each other’s feet is a reference to Jesus washing the feet of his disciples. Jesus also used one basin. The disciples did not have blood on their feet, but Judas was stained with the blood of Jesus by his betrayal. The taint of his betrayal also could not be washed away. John briefly sees the Lord at the end of this vision. This vision may be a reference to Jesus appearing to his disciples after his death. The Lord appeared to John who was now saved and born again. This vision is interesting because there was a recent article about Pope Francis washing and kissing the feet of a dozen inmates at a juvenile detention center in a Holy Thursday ritual that he had observed when he was an archbishop (The Times - Shreveport, Friday, March 29, 2013, Page 20A). I thought it was interesting that this ritual would be observed by the Pope and reported on as I was reading Go Tell It On the Mountain.
ReplyDeleteThe vision I choose is the Threshing Floor because it has many meanings to it and it brings the story to a closer. In the part of the book John realizes he want to be saved and wants to become a preacher which everybody has been telling him all his life. He was going to follow the same footsteps his father choice but since Gabriel wasn’t his real father it made you question if John was going to go down that road. At the beginning of the novel you see Gabriel pushing for Roy to follow what he has started because he knew that John wasn’t his real son so he wanted this role to be passed down to the rightful son which is Roy. Also, John didn’t wanted to be saved so he was not accepting what other people was telling him he would turn out to be. Then, you see a shift in this part of the book because John hears a voice which instructs him to go through which means to just accept the fact he would be blessed with preaching ability. He was in a place where he was surrounded by darkness, demons and temptation so he calls on god to help him out of this place. Now that he tries to follow God it’s like the devil is constantly trying to pull him back but he is able to shake the devil off by staying prayed up.
ReplyDeleteThe interpretation of this vision is nice and thorough. I agree that John is finally making a change in his life that God led him to and that the devil can no longer hold him back.
DeleteThe most interesting part of John's visions is when he was walking and talking with his father. Usually John tries to please his father and listens to what his father says, but it was interesting to see John refusing his father's demands John had the nerve to call Gabriel out for his behavior and laughed when he slapped him (Baldwin 201). I feel that this dream or vision reflects all of John's mental struggles. John worries about his sinning behavior while looking at women which was referenced earlier in the novel, but his main concern was his father's harsh treatment. John was often too frightened to fight back, but unconsciously, John has found a way to take control and rise above his father's hatred. I think that John sees this as a message from the saints and God to disregard the ways of his father. Gabriel has sinned and therefore, is not an example of a the higher power. John gets to see Gabriel for who he really is.
ReplyDeleteI like what you had to say. It is really nice to see John stand up to Gabriel after all of this time. We have seen John be very submissive to everything that his father had to say throughout the whole novel. I was happy to see that growth in John at the end of the novel.
DeleteI totally agree with your statement because I also feel like this is the one time John expresses his hatred towards his father. Gabriel is no better than the people he calls " sinners" so John because able to laugh in his face was just like him saying "whatever". This was one of my favorite visions.
DeleteI would defiantly agree with what you said. For the most part I feel the exact same way you do. It was neat to finally see John stand up to Gabriel after being so submissive throughout almost the entire novel. Gabriel is no better than John and I think it was time he finally realized that for himself. John finally came to terms and figured out a way to overcome his fathers hatred and not let that spoil him and his heart or emotions.
DeleteI agree, it was good for john to finally stand up to Gabriel and confront him about his hatefulness towards him
DeleteI agree with you because it was time for John to stand up to Gabriel for bullying him and finally voice his opinion.
DeletePerfectly said, John stood up for himself and no longer allowed Gabriel to have control of him and down him
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ReplyDeleteThe most interesting part of John's visions to me was when he was being asked to call on The Lord "Call on Him. Call on Him." (205) someone kept telling him to call on him. But John was too apprehensive. He wasn't quite to the point where he was ready to give himself to God. When someone cried "Have you been to the river?" (206) that's when he finally yelled "Oh, blessed Jesus! Oh, Lord Jesus! Take me through!" (207) right before he said that he caught a glimpse of The Lord. That was REALLY interesting to me. With him seeing the vision of the river it showed him what people went through to get to the river and just by seeing how distraught their robes were, he knew what they had been through. THAT vision was the vision that just gave him that little push he needed to give himself to God!
ReplyDeleteI like how you used the scene with John calling on God but you focused on the river and his vision of the Lord. This part of the novel was hard for me to comprehend and you just simply broke it down and I want to agree with you with the fact that John's vision of God most definitely helped him go through Hell.
DeleteThis section of the book was hard to understand but I will write about as much as I did understand. The most interesting moment in Johm's vision is when his father and him are walking down the "straight, narrow way"(233). It is the fist time that John builds up the confidence to challenge Gabriel. The dialogue starts when the old, black woman is going down the same vacant and silent street as they are. This women in Gabriel's case is sin and mentions that the "Devil's son" goes after people like the woman. He boldly asks his father "Whose son are you?" (234). His response is a slap. John then tells Gabriel about his hate for him and that he "seen him under the robe". Once this is said Gabriel repeats "I am going to beat it out of you. I'm going to beat it out." Gabriel longs to beat the sin out of John for his many actions.
ReplyDeleteI immediately agreed with your post when you stated that this section of the novel was difficult to understand, because I too had a hard time. I find it interesting that you pointed out the vision you chose as marking the first time John develops the courage to challenge Gabriel. I would have to agree with that as well.
DeleteOne interesting part of John's visions are when he is talking to his father. Thorughout the story John is walking a straight line, always trying to please Gabriel. He is always listening to what he says and for the first time John refuses his father's demands. John makes a mockery of him and laughs when he slaps him ( Baldwin 201). By calling Gabriel out for his actions, we see a side of John we probably never expected. This vision sheds light on all of his mental struggles, the things he worried about. He had always been obedient to his father but this shows him rising above his father. I think this was needed because John held in a lot of his hatred for him father and this allowed Gabriel to see how he really felt.
ReplyDeleteI agree. This was the first time he disobeyed his father. He needed this because in order for John to grow and be the man he needs to be he has to get from under his father who is oppressing him.
DeleteThe most interesting vision of John's is when the book details on John going through the phase of becoming saved. Personally, I think that this scene in the book is considered the "turning point" in John's life. John finally gets the courage to stand up to his supposedly father. He does so by laughing when his father slaps him. At this point, John is no longer fearful of Gabriel. In fact, Gabriel has never seen John look at him the way he did (Baldwin 200-201) This scene of him at the altar becoming saved and "taking the role after his father" is what everyone was waiting for. Everyone surrounding him expected him to grow up and be a preacher one day. This scene determines the outcome of what John wants his life to be. He could either become what everyone else wants him to become or he could manifest into the person he genuinely wants to be. This scene unites the whole story together.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your definition of what you thought this vision meant. This vision is also the most interesting in my opinion. Even though it was in his vision, John's stand against his father is very symbolic of his life to come.
DeleteThe most interesting part of John's visions is whenever he mentions the "darkness". While he is before the altar John has his moments when he is trying to escape from the darkness that represents sin and Hell. The darkness seems to engulf John and take him far away from God's light. John fears this darkeness but while in the darkness he starts to realize how much he hates Gabriel. When John comes out of the darkness he is considered saved but I think he comes out experience. John has now literally been through "Hell and back" and is ready to decide how he wants to live his life.
ReplyDeleteA vision of John's that stuck out to me is the segment where "his mouth was filled with salt, [and] his ears were filled with burning water" (Baldwin 198). This whole chapter of the novel is bizarre and hard to follow making my initial reflection to the meaning of this vision one of confusion. After reading the passage a few times, I developed my interpretation that the salt and water represented inner cleanliness for John. Being from New Orleans and having prepared many pounds of seafood, especially, I am familiar with salt being an aid to purge shrimp and crawfish in order to rid the shellfish of the grainy dirt particles. I also made the connection that boiling or hot water is used to disinfect everyday items, and even to cleanse bodies each day. With these connections in mind, I determined that this vision was John's way of cleansing his ears and mouth to prepare himself to hear and speak the word of God.
ReplyDeleteYour interpretation is great! I didn't think about the vision this way. John feels sinful and dirty. So that really explains the salt and the boiling water to cleanse him. He wishes to cleanse himself so that he can be accepted. I also like your connection to New Orleans and seafood; it's very relocatable and easy to grasp.
DeleteI believe your connection to New Orleans and the seafood was truly something different. I would have never been able to see it in that light. I agree that John is trying to cleanse himself as a whole to be saved by God.
DeleteThis blog was very insightful and well thought out. John had always thought that he was unclean and not ready to be saved. He did not want to take on the role that everyone wanted to. After reading your blog, I do agree that this seems to be the most important. I think how you tied all this together is excellent and very creative.
DeleteJohn’s most interesting vision while on the threshing floor is the one when he is walking with his father. This vision is the perfect embodiment of his true emotions towards Gabriel. His thoughts throughout the novel have given readers insight on his feeling, while his vision is the perfect embodiment of those feelings. The conversation between the two as they walk characterizes John’s realization that Gabriel is a hypocrite. When John implies that Gabriel is a son of the Devil and very much a sinner himself shows that he is no longer afraid of what Gabriel might do to him (Baldwin 201). As he is able to brush off Gabriel’s threats and physical abuse, John shows the reader that his progression throughout the novel has come to an end and that he is ready to become a man. When John throws Gabriel’s own sin back at him, he lets Gabriel know that he has no right to scold everyone and label them as sinners while he is a sinner himself. This helps John come to terms with his spirituality despite the constant hypocrisy he has endured from his father.
ReplyDeleteThe part i chose as most interesting was when John and Gabriel were walking down the straight narrow street and they see the lady. She was blacker than anyone John had every seen before, had a bigger mouth, and was drunk and dirty. What I found interesting about this part was the fact that John, during his hallucinations, was rolling the saying, "A servant of servants shall be unto his brethren" and wondered if this is why blacks were slaves. When he sees this woman in his vision, his father tells him that she is sin and she is what the devil's son runs after. John finds this funny as says in return to his father that " I ain't the Devil's son for nothing." Even though this section was quiet confusing I got out of this part of John's vision was the Lord revealing to John the truth about his father. His father is trying to make him pay for his sins. Gabriel doesn't want John to be saved he wants to let him fall into the pits of Hell. He wishes that his own son Roy would be the one. In a way he is trying to hinder John from being what he is destined to be. John tells his father that he hates him and that he has seen him without his crown and robe and he knows the truth. This is John's transformation into manhood. The battle between him and his father has not yet ending only progressed from man to boy to man to man.
ReplyDeleteI also chose this vision of their walk down the street, but I like your approach. I agree with the fact that in this vision God was trying to reveal the sins of Gabriel that he has been trying to hide for many years. Gabriel is attempting to have John pay for Gabriel’s sins. Like you said Gabriel wants John to sin and not become saved, so that he cannot follow in his footsteps. Gabriel wants his blood-son to be the one that succeed him. Also in this vision finally stands up and tells Gabriel how he feels.
DeleteThe vision John had when Gabriel was calling him the devils son and saying that he was sinful to which John responds telling him how he hears Gabriel having sex with his mother at night basically blaming John for the same urges that Gabriel has and acts on. This vision like reinforced the theme of Gabriel s hippo criticism that keeps showing up like when He was a preacher but he cheated on his wife and had a kid with Esther. also Gabriel proclaiming to John that he is the devils son and John calling him out in his vision is like Johns growing up and him finally standing up to the man who was basically his tormenter.this goes along with the fact that all the visions are a part of a spiritual episode in which John get "saved" so its almost like him being saved is him facing in his own way all the problems that he was facing in the story up to that point.
ReplyDeleteThe most interesting part of John's vision is when John goes walking with his father. I enjoyed this part the most because it explains the true thoughts of John. Gabriel treats John in the most harsh ways and doesn't see any good in him, but John tries to make him see differently. At this point John is fed up with Gabriel and he doesn't care what he thinks of him anymore. He sees Gabriel for who he truly is and he will be different.John realizes that it is time to dedicate his life to God and decides to stop fighting it.
ReplyDeleteThe most interesting part to me in this section was part three: The Threshing-Floor is mostly about John becoming of age with religion and becoming saved. In this final part of the book John realizes his true calling in religion like his father intended for him to become in the first place. However Gabriel is caving into John's decision about becoming a pastor because John dislikes that Gabriel hates him. John becomes saved in the end because he decides to release his anger towards his father and do right by his mother. She was the main push that made John strive to be better. Another part that caught my attention is when John is in the darkness weak, scared, tired, surrounded by demons with no way out and no light and how he finally calls on the Lord. At this point, John feels helpless and relies on the Lord for help. I felt as if this was a realization and wake up call to John to solidify and show him just how much he actually needs the Lord despite what he might not want to believe it, it’s true.
ReplyDeleteI agree with this post. It is his coming of age and he chooses to follow the lord.
DeleteDuring John's vision, he sees his parents, aunt, and Elisha watching him from above while he was suffering in a pit. They were singing and weeping for John. Apparently in this vision, John was "struck down." Perhaps John sees himself going to hell or purgatory for his sins, and his family and friends are praying for him. He also sees himself reaching and struggling towards them. But the more he struggles towards them, the more he falls into the pit. He says no matter how much he cried, no one heard him besides himself. This vision to me is interesting because it reflects John's feeling. This is how John feels. He belittles himself. He feels that he is sinful, that there is no way God can forgive him, and no room for repentance. He mentions how desperately he wishes to come to his family, but it seems like they did not want him to be with them. He even says perhaps they did not help him because they did not love him (198). I think this is just one of the saddest visions that John experienced. John feels left out and unloved. This is most likely due to society and his father. The society back then was very prejudice and racial. Also, John’s father shows him little to no love.
ReplyDeleteThe most interesting part in this section, The Threshing Floor, was when John was surrounded by darkness and demons with no way out. He was very weak and could not move at all, he called with all his might "Oh Lord have mercy on me. Have mercy on me. and a voice for the first time in all his terrible journey spoke to John, through the rage and weeping and fire, and darkness and flood: Yes said the voice, go through. Go through". As we can see in the beginning of the novel, John wasn’t a very big fan of religion and he did not want to walk the path of religion as he was forced by his father Gabriel. But during this section of the book, he gets surrounded by the demons in a dark room and he tries to seek salvation and asks for the mercy of god in order to get him out of this bad situation. A voice responded to him and guided him through the hardship and John was saved. This proves that no matter how much if a sinner you are, there can always be a new start so salvation out of sin can be acquired through true devotion to god and religion in terms of the book. This whole experience was a story of how John was saved from sin and was guided into the light.
ReplyDeleteThe most interesting part of the last section of Go Tell it on the Mountain was when we heard all of the noises and voices telling John to "Go Through” and to "Ask Him to take you through." (Baldwin 205). John had struggled throughout the novel in whether or not he wanted to following the steps of his father and whether or not he wanted to be saved or not. We see how Gabriel doesn’t want John to be like him but wants Roy too who we come to find out is the total opposite of what his father wants him to be. John struggles with sinful thoughts and be people pressuring him to follow in his father’s footsteps. John realizes that he doesn’t want to be living in sin and is scared to do anything other than what he knows and God and the church is all he knows. John is growing up and realizing that all the people he knows who is not saved is what he refuses to be like. After a long night of Hallucinating and dealing with both his good and bad demons he comes to the notion that he wants to be saved and then Gabriel tells him he need to live it and not just say it. I feel as though his visions is what ultimately forced him to decide in whether he was going to follow in the Lords path just his father did. John has the support from all the church and his family which encourages him and helps him reassure that his choice was a right one.
ReplyDeletei agree with you that the scene where John is getting saved is a very interesting part. the entire movie Baldwin has shown how exactly John was handling his life while living the christian life that his farther thought he should. Even though the reader can tell that john is a God fearing young man he never really experienced the anointing for himself. this scene shows exactly how John is growing up.
DeleteThe most interesting part of the last section as when John became saved and gave his life to the lord. This part is interesting because throughout the book John struggles with if he will be like Gabriel and choose the lords way or not. He wanted to be completely sure that that was the decision that he wanted to make. John called upon the lord to take him through and despite the fact that he disliked gabriel, he didn't let that get in the way of his salvation any longer. Also, i recall when John is in a place of darkness and he calls upon the lord to have mercy on his soul.
ReplyDeleteThe very last page of the novel got to me the most; "And he felt his father behind him. And he felt the March wind rise, striking through his damp clothes, against his salty body. He turned to face his father- he found himself smiling, but his father did not smile" (Baldwin 226) This quote got to me the most because it shows that John got saved thinking it would please his father because he got saved on his own without his father telling him too. Its also very interesting because throughout the novel we have seen John struggle if he would be like his father or not and finally we see that he is and his not surprise he did not please his father. This also shows John as being grown and knowing what it takes to be a saved man in order for his mom and somewhat of his dad to be proud of him.
ReplyDeleteThe entire vision was confusing and hard to understand but i did, however, feel as if this was John's coming of age moment. "Everyone had always said that John would be a preacher when he grew up, just like his father" (Baldwin 3). Through the vision, John makes this statement true! He hadn't had many examples of a straight and narrow path in his life. The streets represented sin and his Father never showed him love but lived a "righteous life." He could've went off and been like his brothers but he didn't. Despite the fact that Gabriel may have resented John, John didn't let that define who he would be. Because he didn't feel loved he could've gone done a very differnt path. But here we see that John didn't give into temptaion. "Go through. Go through.'Lift me up,' whispered John, 'lift me up. I can't go through.'" He is determined to do the right thing in life.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your post. John did not have to confine to what his father believes a good christian should be. He had to find his own way with the Lord which is every christian's coming of age moment.
DeleteThe most eye opening part of The Threshing Floor was the vision where it says," Go through. Go through'Lift me up'' whispered John,' Left me up. I can't go through." I understood this vision as John choosing the holy path leading to salvation. Ever since the beginning of the novel John has been in between two conflicts choosing the holy path following the Lord's word, and the sinful one of going into the open world and experiencing it himself. I was shocked when I found this out because throughout the novel I assumed he was going to choose to go out into the world, and learn new things and experience others. This shows that regardless of the fact that John and Gabriel don't get along he still chooses to serve God, and wants to live by the word of God.
ReplyDeleteThe most interesting vision i think was the glimpse of God Himself. I think that that was God giving John a vision of the power of God's hand. That profound vision makes John pick up the right choice which makes him know that he will face a lot of trials in his life and that he will have to keep the faith because his road will not be easy since he has become a new follower of Christ. God just wants him to choose the right path and follow him. That was God saying wake up and believe that I Am real and that I AM the truth the life and the way.
ReplyDeleteI agree 100%. That statement was very powerful. It's interesting how after all of his chaotic and random visions, this vision stuck out the most to John, especially since it was just a quick glimpse. That quick glimpse was the final touch to the series of visions. That vision in particular had changed John's life forever and many Christians nowadays can attest to that.
DeleteWhat is the most interesting of John's visions (walking with his father, washing of the feet, etc.) on the threshing floor? What does the vision you choose mean?
ReplyDeleteThe most interesting of John's visions is the vision of him walking with his father and washing of the feet. As John and his father walked down the white narrow path it showed his fathered wanting to help him out of sin but it was John whom back away. He started to go backwards, and ran away from his father's hands instead of moving forward down this path with his father. The washing of the feet means the cleansing of sins. It also means that God has his path, wherever he goes, his feet is covered by the blood of Jesus.
I chose the vision when John was walking down the street with his father. This vision can be found as the author wrote, “And I hate you... waiting to worry him with their teeth again.” (Baldwin 234-235). I chose this vision because it is associated with paranoia. The vision relates to paranoia because it was taken place during night time. Also, bad things happen during the night such as robberies, murders, kidnaps and rapes. In addition to that, John felt as though demons were hiding in the shadows waiting for him to be their next victim. The reasoning behind this could be do to him having a troubled spirit and conscience. Also, this vision relates to a song called “The Freaks Come Out at Night” by Whodini. This song implies that people not of the norm come out at night and start a series of unfortunate events.
ReplyDeleteI had a little trouble keeping up with his whole vision. The part of the vision I choose was “And the voice, for the first time in all his terrible journey, spoke to John, through the rage and the weeping, and fire, and darkness, and flood: "Yes," said the voice, “go through. Go through."Lift me up," whispered John, "lift me up. I can't go through."(205). This is what made me see that John isn't giving up on himself, he will not live in his life in sin, and that he wants to be saved. I was pretty sure that he did not want to be saved because he did not want to turn out like his step-father. The quote showed me that John wants to server and live by the word of God. The vision demonstrates that John wants to be saved religiously, but he wants it on his own terms and not by the pressuring of his father, Gabriel. Gabriel did not want John to follow his footsteps because John was not his true son John becomes saved in the end because he decides to release his anger towards his father and do right by his mother. She wants him to disregard sin to better himself. John fights the darkness and reach the light where salvation is.
ReplyDeleteTrying to captivate John’s visions was very difficult, but the one that stood out the most was him walking with his father. John and his father’s relationship were not full of love and happiness. While John was on the floor he saw his father, and his father always said “I’m gonna beat the sin out of you.” Even when John is in a holy trance his father’s hatred follows him. John saw God and his family in the kingdom (heaven) but he had to get there himself. John even stepped up to his father by telling him” I seen you under the robe” (Baldwin 199). Baldwin was trying to convey that John has to walk through his new life as newly saved Christian. Now we know that John is trying to find his way in the Lord, and it is not going to be an easy journey. When John was said he “belonged to the darkness,” a voice told him “call on him” (Baldwin 202). We understand that John needed to walk with his father in able to get past him; we now know that he does not need his father to be a pious individual. I thought it was interesting because John finally gets a since of peace away from his father because he has a lot of support from the church and his family.
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ReplyDeleteIn the last part of the novel, The Threshing-Floor, John is finally realizing his fate and becoming saved. Although the novel all occurs in one day, Elisha can be seen heavily trying to help John become saved and realize his fate with God. It isn’t until the end of the novel when John is in the church that John realizes that it truly is his fate. John was truly against being saved originally due to his hatred for Gabriel and not to become like him. John truly didn’t believe he was meant to believe from the beginning because of the temptations around him, like the yellow stain on the ceiling for example. In the final chapter of the novel, however, John is told by a voice to “ask Him to take you through” (205) which truly changes John and helps him become saved. John envisions himself in Hell reaching for the light but forever being pulled back. John, however, fights for God and goes for the light. In my opinion, this was a truly invigorating moment of the novel because John finally realizes his fate and begins to fight for it.
When I look at this section I have no other choice but to compare John in the novel to John the divine. In Revelation John sees vision from the Lord regarding the preperations of heaven. Here John is shown the right and the wrong path, but what was intresting how he was shown the the vision of servanthood. Washing others feet was showing the same attitude Christ had when he washed the disciples feet. John was shown a life of service and gratitude.
ReplyDeleteI honestly think all of the visions were a little difficult to follow, but I think the most interesting was the "Threshing Floor" because I feel this concludes the story well. This vision demonstrates a turning point in John's conflict with himself and his religion. This is where John finally feels pulled to God even though he knows he may venture off again due to his sexuality. When John pleads for God to "have mercy on [him]" (pg.202) it shows that John is finally trying to give up control on his life. I believe this is John's final attempt to gain a true father relationship with Gabriel though accepting a relationship with God as a spiritual father. I feel that even though John felt in the moment it was what was necessary that he was not fully committed. He cared about what people thought of him and Elizabeth and Elisha's desire for him to be saved for he even states after to Elisha that he wants people to know he was saved no matter what he does with his life after. This shows me that John knew that his salvation with the lord was not something he planned on nurturing and I think when Gabriel still rejected him afterwards, it damaged the potential relationship John could have had with the Lord due to Gabriel's hurtful behavior.
ReplyDeleteIn the final section of this book, The Threshing Floor, John is transitioning from a boy to a man. The vision I chose to write about shows John asking God for His help; he wants Him to save him from the darkness. He finally becomes saved although in the start of the book he did not want to be a truly religious man like Gabriel. “Everyone had always said that John would be a preacher when he grew up, just like his father.” (3) Gabriel pushed religion on his whole family, especially Roy and John. Although, Gabriel did not feel that John should be the one to follow in his footsteps and be a preacher because he was not his blood son. It took John a while to finally realize that his calling was to become a religious man. Elisha had been getting on John to truly accept God and be saved from the beginning. Gabriel put so much force on religion that John was not sure that he could whole-heartedly accept God and be saved like Elisha and Gabriel wanted him to be. A voice comes along and changes John completely. It tells him to do right and accept what was set in place for his future. He knows that he needs to stop pushing God away and accept his fate. John needed to ask God to pull him through the darkness so that he could get to the light. He was stuck for a while and needed this change. John now has a desire to be saved like Elisha. As John is trying to push through the darkness demons are trying to pull him back further but they fail because John is headed for the light and reaching for God. When John finally gets out of the darkness he is saved and cleansed from all of his sins. I found this vision to be remarkable because it shows step-by-step how John got out of the darkness and into the arms of God Himself. Olivia Sherman: Week 11
ReplyDeleteAll of his visions were hard to follow, but i think that "The Threshing Floor" was the best because it ended the story well and was his coming of age story. The vision shows that he has ended his conflict with religion and he chose to give his life to Christ.
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ReplyDeleteI found it quite difficult to discern John’s visions and what was taking place while on the floor. I found the vision of John walking down the narrow street with Gabriel the most interesting of the visions that I read. It is interesting that his father was taking him on a walk on the straight and narrow path but Gabriel had never really walked on the straight and narrow himself. I found it interesting that John was trying to determine if he was going to the streets or staying in the church, but yet in his vision he was frightened in streets with Gabriel. He realizes that the “buildings were not for him¬¬—not today¬¬— no, nor tomorrow, either” (Baldwin 200). How ironic is it that while on the path of the straight and narrow they encounter a drunken dark skinned woman. I think this is representative of the women Gabriel did wrong while on his path of holiness. Gabriel is upset to see her. When John makes fun of her, Gabriel says, “you mighty proud, ain’t you to be the Devil’s son” (201). He also says that the woman was sin and that is what the Devil’s son goes after. When John asks him who son he is, Gabriel gets mad because this is the kind of woman Gabriel goes for a woman who is needy. At the end of the vision John expresses that he has seen Gabriel naked, meaning that he has seen him without his holy robe that he wants everyone to think is his real self(201). John expresses how he doesn’t want to be like him.
The most interesting part of it had to be when he was in darkness and it was like he couldn't see and he needed direction, someone to help him through whatever he was going through. It was was like he was blind and at that moment despite of how he tried to avoid giving himself to God and not being saved, basically against religion in a sort of way, He called to GOD and asked him to lead him in the direction that he needed to be lead in, that touched me.
ReplyDeleteThe most interesting part of John's vision was when he reaches the high room. He describes the men and women dressed in lonh white robes celebrating communion together. I like how these who come off as holy and clean ends up at the river. "And now they had undergone a change: their robes were ragged, and stained with the road which they had travled, and stained with unholy blood; the robes of some barely covered their nakedness; and some indeed were naked," (206). To me, this vision completes the theme of the book, bringing truth to the light. Throughout the book, we are introduced to unique characters and their darkest secrets. Like the people celebrating communion, they are not perfect. No one ispperfect. Everyone sins and falls short.
ReplyDeleteThe Threshing floor scene was very hectic and confusing but the most interesting and clearest part of the section is when John finally decides to give his life over to God. John was in the fiery pits of Hell and he was afraid that he would have to stay there so he whispered “ Oh, Lord have mercy on me. Have mercy on me (205). This was the first step of John’s salvation. Then a voice spoke back to John saying “go through, go through”. John begins to develop faith when he says “lift me up. I can’t go through” (205). In this part of the threshing floor, John is stuck between darkness and light. I feel that this part of the threshing floor is the most important because it is when John realizes that God is the way and the truth and Jesus is his savior. I also like this scene because in the beginning of the novel John says that he will never bow to God because that means that he has to bow to his father first. But John has overcame his childishness and recognized that God is the only way.
ReplyDeleteI agree that this was a very confusing section of the book, but I also liked the vision you choose. It was very clear and easy to understand, but I'm not sure John necessarily went through his father. I think that John realized that his father is and will not be in his way when trying to get to God.
Delete‘’The Threshing Floor” was a very confusing and for the most part chaotic. There was so much going on at the time that Id didn’t truly understand what was going on at some parts. However, the vision that John experienced that had captured my attention the most was when John saw his mother, father, Elisha, and his aunt above him watching him “burn” in the pits of hell. In this vision, he feels like his body is a heavy carcass that he is currently trying to raise with no help. It is mentioned that “He struggled, to rise up, and meet them- he wanted wings to fly upward and meet them in the morning, that morning where they were” (Baldwin 197). I believe that The “morning” that is mentioned represents salvation as he tries to mirror the people that he believes that have already reached this state: His mother, father, Elisha, and his Aunt. However, he feels that he is drowning in pit of his sins and that he probably will never reach that state of holiness. That is why he is struggling to rise and get up. I find this vision very interesting. It tells the reader that he is very hard upon himself and that he gives himself great expectations to fill.
ReplyDeleteFor the last part of the book, "The Threshing Floor," it was very difficult to keep up with the many changing scenes in the visions. There were so many of them and the transitions were so sudden it was hard to keep up, but my favorite vision was when John was in the graveyard with his family members and even Deborah, whom he did not know. To me it seemed like the truth about everything involving his family was coming to him, although he did not recognize it. There in the graveyard "there was no speech or language, and there was no love" (Baldwin 202). The fact that his family was there and love was absent told me that there was more to this picture that meets the eye.
ReplyDeleteJohn's most important vision is when he sees the light on page 207. The whole time before this, he has been trapped in his own darkness, without Christ. He knew that this was the life for him, but it just took him awhile to figure it out on his own, and actually commit to it. Before, he felt too much pressure, being the step son as a father. However, in this scene, he no longer cares. He actually wants it for himself now, which is why it is the most important of his visions. He calls out for Jesus in this scene, and "his drifting soul was anchored in the love of God; in the rock that endured forever" (207). He now lives with the presence of the Lord within him. From this point on he won't have to deal with worrying so much about how he's going to come to Christ and please Gabriel. He has found joy within himself and Christ alone. He still has hopes of pleasing Gabriel, but now that he has a life with Christ, he does not have to carry the burden of not being saved.
ReplyDeleteI can see how this vision would be important. It shows how John has to come to the Lord for the right reasons. The reason shouldn't be to please Gabriel but for his own health. He also shouldn't turn away from the Lord to despite Gabriel but he should form his own personal reasons for building a relationship with the Lord. I don't think anything that John does will please Gabriel. John could foster his own ministry and that still wouldn't please Gabriel. But now I think John feels as though Christ will lead him through the situation and lighten his burden of not pleasing Gabriel.
DeleteThe most interesting part of the novel was the threshing floor when John was surrounded by the demons and he was scared and he was basically trapped and he finally called on God! I thought it was so ironic, because since the beginning, John has been trying to steer away from God, and religion period. When he was in need he remembered that god would always aid him. i think that the message was that its never too late to call on God and allow him to enter your life for savor. It never to late for salvation and that is what John proved and he was then saved.
ReplyDeleteThe most interesting of John's vision was walking with his father. He needed to do that so that he can move past it and let go of the relationship of the past. He didn't have the best relationship with his father, but in order for him to move on, he had to do this. He wanted to become a Christian and start anew. This can be related back to how and why he treats his boys the way he do
ReplyDeleteA very interesting vision is when he sees himself and his father walking down the long narrow road, his father dressed in a white robe. Tall buildings reaching from the sky. This vision is very interesting because it at first seems very clean cut and pure, like the embodiment of holiness. However, as the vision goes on this pure vision becomes stained when the black women appears. To me the vision shows how narrow the path is to walk with the Lord and how, like the woman, it is so easy to get off course. At the end of the vision John yells, "And I hate you. I hate you. I don't care about your golden crown. I don't care about your long white robe. I seen you under your robe, I seen you!" (201). John is now finally expressing all the feelings he deeply held for his father. The golden crown and white robe represents his father's holiness and preacher ways and John's stating I seen means that his father is covering something up and that his father doesn't even belong on the narrow path.
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